some of the most painful Utena episodes

[mikogalatea]

Episodes 31 and 32 still hurt. Poor Nanami.

I want to throw more bricks at Akio. I've got ep 33 next, so I'll want even more bricks for that. Bastard.

Comments

[sarajayechan]

I know, right? D: And yes on throwing bricks at Akio. "What, Nanami's going to stay with the closest thing she has to a trusted friend in the wake of a traumatic discovery? Someone who might be an idiot but is too young to do any real harm and actually cares for her? NOPE, CAN'T HAVE THAT, I'M TAKING HER HOME WITH ME!"

And Touga's behavior is major "hurt people hurt people", with a side of "she told me she loves me so that must mean she wants to sleep with me" due to his own experiences. Also the latter really drives home how Nanami's idea of "Father, I want to marry my brother" is chaste as fuck. Like it's comparable to how Priscilla wanted Raven to stay by her side and remember his marriage promise in FE7 - neither of them wanted to sleep with their brothers, just to be special to them.

(And as harsh as Raven was in his B support with Priscilla, at least he didn't go "btw we're not real siblings" and then sexually assault her.)

[CW: rape, CSA, incest, all the typical Utena things]

[mikogalatea]

Even before the traumatic discovery in question, Nanami having her stockings off in Akio's office and him touching her bare ankle while patching her up made me nauseous. Keep your filthy, sister-raping, Nanami's-brother-raping hands off her, you slimeball. (God, speaking of which, there's something vomit-inducingly grotesque about the final "Touga and Nanami are blood siblings after all" reveal happening while he's getting bedded by Akio again...)

I wonder if Touga didn't like the idea of Nanami staying under the same roof as Akio when he tried to take her home at the end of ep 31, whether it's in a remotely benevolent way or just in a "she's mine" sort of way or a mix of the two. He knows what Akio is like, after all, even if he's trying to emulate him at this point...

Nanami's confession is so heartbreaking. Her love for Touga is so genuine, and so chaste, and he evidently took it completely the wrong way. ;.; Her duel is heartbreaking too, because she's so obviously in pain throughout the whole thing and especially afterwards.

I have loads of feelings on these episodes, so I could easily go on so much more.

Re: [CW: rape, CSA, incest, all the typical Utena things]

[sarajayechan]

OH GOD THAT TOO. It was bad enough watching him do it to Utena. Like, you can treat a sprained ankle without taking off someone's socks! Just wrap an ice pack around it!

(There is. D: Akio's "you're such a bad brother" line as he's boning Touga, when we know who the worse brother is.)

Definitely a mix. His heart's still in there, he still remembers he cares for her but he's such a mess of a person and so bitter inside his motives are a mess, too. He takes his pain over his nasty experiences out on her but even he wouldn't want Akio getting his hands on Nanami.

She just wants to be his most special person and hold hands with him, she wants him to protect her and defend her honor and do the same for him. But Touga's never experienced that kind of chaste love. He sure as hell doesn't seem to remember their birth parents' love, if they ever DID love their kids.

Re: [CW: rape, CSA, incest, all the typical Utena things]

[mikogalatea]

Too bad it's Akio, and Akio will take any excuse he can to touch a teenager. Seeing Utena shrink back from him before he kissed her in ep 30 was so uncomfortable.

(Seriously. Touga's body language in that scene says an awful lot, too, like he doesn't feel all that good about what he did to Nanami and he doesn't really want to be there. I think I might've had it right in my fanfic; Touga going to Akio here could've been an act of self-harm on some level.)

Yeah, I can see that. Part of me kind of wonders if, on an extremely twisted level that does not excuse what he did, he thought assaulting Nanami was better than some other things that could've happened instead -- like Akio raping Nanami himself, and/or Akio having Nanami find out that he does to Touga what she saw him do to Anthy. I actually saw a fanfic that touched on that, and it was a pretty good one too.

Nanami's love is so innocent at its core, but Touga isn't able to see love as anything innocent. :( If you ask me, he probably only thinks of their birth parents as traitors.

Re: [CW: rape, CSA, incest, all the typical Utena things]

[sarajayechan]

Exactly. D: Vanna iirc said on the forums that he likely didn't touch Wakaba because he needed her stamp of approval before he took Utena for a ride, which makes sense. He'll restrain himself only if it means he can get more later.

(...oh God. That makes a LOT of sense. In episode 25 Touga seemed okay with what he did to Saionji, or he was able to convince himself more that it was for the greater good. Nanami, though? Not so much. D: I still also believe those scenes with him and Akio were Akio rewarding him with dick for throwing people under the bus. And Touga chose to use it as punishment.)

Honestly? I can see it. Just like my fic where he raped Saionji to stop Akio from doing it, except in that case it was a clear-cut sadistic choice. In Nanami's case, Touga was more like "if I don't, he will, she might as well lose it to someone she loves"...but then she didn't want to and he was confused because what DID she mean by love, then?

Ten years later I realize their birth parents can't have been even decent people to sell their kids like that. I can see Nanami wondering about them and Touga telling her they're not worth it.

Re: [CW: rape, CSA, incest, all the typical Utena things]

[mikogalatea]

I swear, Akio taking a teenager out on a "date" and not assaulting them is like clearing a bar so low it's in the Earth's freaking core. He definitely made a deliberate choice in not doing too much with Wakaba.

Ep 25 hinted that Touga had misgivings about his whole thing with Akio, but he didn't seem to specifically regret what he pulled on Saionji -- or if he did, it wasn't to the same degree that he was implied to regret what he did to Nanami. There's a telling difference between the two scenes; the one in ep 25 had more symmetry, whereas the aftermath of Nanami's duel didn't have that and Akio ended up forcing symmetry by sitting on the bed behind Touga the way he did... followed by the silhouette shot, which suggests it wasn't just the symmetry that was forced in that scene. :(

I used to have thoughts about Nanami possibly wanting to find their birth parents after learning the truth, even if just to ask them why, but now I can't see her pushing the issue much or even at all. It's not like she or Touga owe anything to them. My old headcanon about the birth parents was that the father really was a cold-hearted bastard who had no problem selling his kids off to a paedophile for... whatever it was he gained from it, whereas the mother didn't want it to happen but was either too powerless or too weak-willed to stop it.

Re: [CW: rape, CSA, incest, all the typical Utena things]

[sarajayechan]

It really is.

Yep, I noticed and I saw it when I was gathering screenshots from ohtori.nu. Touga seemed more into his act in episode 25, less empty inside.

My old headcanon about the birth parents was that the father really was a cold-hearted bastard who had no problem selling his kids off to a paedophile for... whatever it was he gained from it, whereas the mother didn't want it to happen but was either too powerless or too weak-willed to stop it.

...that makes way too much sense. I always thought both parents were just awful people, but the mother not wanting to do it would make for even more tragedy. I have this fic idea where Touga or Nanami sees their birth mother without realizing it's her, and she recognizes them but they don't even look each other's way and the mother realizes maybe she shouldn't try to reach out.

[shamanicshaymin]

Nanami learning what incest is and exactly what it entails breaks my heart so much. D: Especially the car scene where she rejects Touga in horror and oof. D:

[mikogalatea]

Everything she goes through in this pair of episodes is heartbreaking, and the trauma she goes through from being faced with the gruesome reality of incest is just one big part of it. :( Ep 32 had me tearing up already just seeing her lash out at Anthy the morning after, well, what she saw, and it just got worse for her from there.